Ayaan Hirsi Ali

I have a lot of respect for this woman



16 responses to “Ayaan Hirsi Ali

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  • Logan

    Ever see this article responding to her book?
    Seems not everything is factual.


  • iapetus

    I read about halfway through it, but I don’t see any actual facts being disputed. Aayan Hirsi Ali does have some strong opinions at times though, I will concede to that.

  • Logan

    I think you may have just missed the part you were looking for, there is a heading called “mistakes” where you’ll find that aspect. It is the last section of the article.

    I think what people disagree with is her telling people what Islam is and isn’t, when she has not studied Islam. That being said her experiences are worth while, but that does not make her experiences Islamic law. Nor do her experiences, although she was Muslim, mean that those experiences were fitting to the religion.

    Similar things could be said about the “barbarians” of the crusades or the IRA conflict, but one would not logically deduce Christian law from those experiences. So, if she tapped into a bad group (as she admits she did) then we can judge the religion based on those experiences.


  • iapetus

    I did actually make it a ways into the “mistakes” section the first time I looked at it. I understand that you are dissatisfied with the picture the she paints of Islam, that you strongly oppose muslims being generalized as being that way. I have heard it been argued before that people who kill, abuse, etc. that happen to be Islamic do not truly understand what it means to be muslim, and that they are not good examples of what the faith stands for. I know 2 or 3 muslims myself, all who seem to be kind, interesting people. Despite this is becomes quite sad that nonetheless these”poor examples” shall we say often strongly link their religion to their violence. I agree with you though, that some things should not be used to single out Islam, as the post you link to mentions, it is not that religion alone that has preached abstinence, for instance. However, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no longer religious, to the best of my understanding, so it is not as if she is crusading for Christianity here, or any other religion for that matter, personally I think she is working for humanity, and perhaps with observance a person might see that her opinions have somewhat evolved over time. She has lost hope in Islam though, and probably did quite some time ago. Her advocating for general human rights being granted to all people without being tied to religion is something I sincerely believe in. People using a religion as an excuse – whether or not the semantics of the religion justifies it – to not enable others with basic human rights is just plain wrong in my eyes, and so I agree strongly with Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s stance.

  • Logan

    Totally understand that.

    But, the follow-up question is: you are saying that all religions (if I understand you correctly) are against some human rights. What human rights are those? Where do the Human Rights come from?

    And, please don’t just say the UN or UNO because what does not really say where they come from, but who codified them.

  • iapetus

    No, I’m not saying that all religions are against human rights, I am saying that they should not get in the way of human rights, they should be superior to human rights. Human rights are personal freedoms, and we should all be allowed to exercise them. Your rights end where mine begin, it does not include the right to dictate my way of life, or to harm me, and the same goes vice versa. It’s a very basic live and let live concept that is expounded upon exceptionally well in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. It comes from human beings being recognized as thoughtful creatures and therefore should get to rule his/her own life.

  • Logan

    Yes, and what I was saying above is that Islam and Muslims also stand for that. The Qur’an says there is “no compulsion in religion.” In this sense, pitting Islam against this freedom is not correct. The Qur’an does allow someone to defend himself or herself, just a the United Nations does. Again, we need to approach this issue in a balanced way.

  • iapetus

    I think it’s very balanced to universally accept human rights regardless of religion.

  • Logan

    And, where do human rights come from?

    (Please don’t say the United Nations, because they simply codified them)

  • iapetus

    I already answered your question, which you already asked, & I only mentioned the UN because they have put them in a written out form we ought to be able to agree upon.

  • Logan

    Maybe I did not explain my question well. I apologize.

    What I mean is that the rights codified in the UN declaration, where did they come from? By that I am asking, what are there roots, certainly the United Nations did not flesh these out from scratch.

    Countries like China have called the United Nations an exporting of western values. And, if one looks to the roots of the United Nations it is heavily Judeo-Christian.

    Is that something you agree with?

  • iapetus

    I feel as if human rights is something recognized by the UN, as well as various religions somewhat, however, as I previously stated, I ultimately feel as if it comes from human beings being accepted as thoughtful creatures that have a right to rule his/her own life, on his/her own terms, as long as they don’t infringe upon another persons. I believe it is a concept that we should all be able to touch and agree upon, despite various interpretations, beliefs, etc.

  • Logan

    I understand what you mean. Although I hope you also recognize that the United Nations system does has a root and not all people agree to it. We have Chinese scholars, Malaysian philosophers, South American politician and all walks of people who feel the United Nations is a set of Western values that are imposed on others – even if they don’t share those values. As you are probably aware the United Nations talks about more than just having a right to rule ones own life, as you mentioned above. No one debates that, but I don’t think you or I understand the United Nations to be a simple statement. Thus one ought to consider the understandings of those around the world (such as those mentioned above, and many others)

  • iapetus

    I see the UN list of human rights as items that stem from the concept of ruling one’s own life, personal freedom essentially, and it’s a gross understatement to say that that idea/belief is debated by no one. Despite being simple, people are oppressed all over the world, including the place you brought up yourself, in Asia, South America, etc.

  • Logan

    Sounds good. I think we are walking on different tracks.

    Nice chatting.

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